Saturday, March 07, 2015

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus tattoo?

Guy Noir wrote to say:  
I have always felt that "that those will be lost who are convinced that the Catholic religion is the true religion, and yet refuse to embrace it” would mean only the willfully rebellious, which in turn would mean if you are trying to be good, you will be saved.
Look! I am not the only one....! 

Elliot Bougis, "Más lío aquí, hombruh…" ["Whoever scorns small things ..."] (FideCogitActio, March 5, 2015), who writes:
Go to One Peter Five in order, if nothing else, to click back to this blog to re-review my ongoing hobby horse, namely, my Eastern Patristic florilegium about Roman supremacy.
I spent several hours tonight significantly revising and expanding the thing. If nothing else, pray over the following image, which I’m tempted to get tattooed on my shoulder blades.

Also interesting is Bougis's link to his Eastern Patristic florilegium about Roman supremacy.  I am sure we will be hearing from "Catholic Mission."

Regardless, Guy Noir appended the following comment by Tony Jokin to Bourgis's post:
Tony Jokin says:
I always found the line “that those will be lost who are convinced that the Catholic religion is the true religion, and yet refuse to embrace it” as missing key information.
Because taking that proposition as it is, I do not see how there is any need to preach the gospel at all. It would appear that our success in convincing someone of the truth of the Catholic religion is what leads one to damnation in some cases. I am thinking of cases where conversion is very inconvenient for a person but a “Catholic idiot” decided to explain how the Catholic Church is the true Church to someone.
If this were true, Christ shouldn’t have spoken about the fact that one would be hated by their family and loved ones for his name. He should have rather instructed the followers to refrain from preaching the good news lest it cause inconvenience and lead them to damnation.
So I believe that the key information missing in that proposition is that “often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.” (Lumen Gentium, 16). The key word being “often”.
I would say, practically speaking, it is highly unlikely, but not impossible, that someone who is outside of the Catholic Church will be saved. Since it is unlikely, no Catholic should use that proposition to define ones operating principles, especially with respect to missionary activity and fighting error.


7 comments:








Raider Fan

said...

I am thinking of cases where conversion is very inconvenient for a person but a “Catholic idiot” decided to explain how the Catholic Church is the true Church to someone. If this were true, Christ shouldn’t have spoken about the fact that one would be hated by their family and loved ones for his name. He should have rather instructed the followers to refrain from preaching the good news lest it cause inconvenience and lead them to damnation

Mr. John Zmirak's fascinating graphic novel, The Grand Inquisitor explores that very problem





Codgitator (Cadgertator)

said...

Well, I'm glad SOME bloggers still have a taste for the finer things! ;) Thanks for the nod. Keep up the good work.





Codgitator (Cadgertator)

said...

Ahh, Zmirak. Such a conundrum. He denies the reality of "Catholic Social Teaching" while insisting the Church's social teaching both condemns socialism, theft, and, to say it again, fraud.





Catholic Mission

said...

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus tattoo?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus-tattoo.html

'I am sure we will be hearing from Catholic Mission'

Needless to mention it!





Anonymous

said...

To Codgitator's comment, I can only add the question, How to know social teaching when living Tradition is so fickle? Hell, the Death Penalty was completely kosher 25 years ago, and now it is paired with abortion as opposition to these being THE defining aspect of Being Catholic Today....oh, along with Healthcare and Immigration and Youth Employment. Smirk can make a case for at least being confused. Aren't we all!





Catholic Mission

said...

SSPX 'spokesman' : Theology of Vatican Council II is in agreement with the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/sspx-spokesman-theology-of-vatican.html

Vatican Council II (premise-free) agrees with the SSPX position on an ecumenism of return and non Christians needing to convert for salvation
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/vatican-council-ii-premise-free-agrees.html





Catholic Mission

said...

SSPX show the Vatican the Marchetti error carried over into Redemptoris Missio, Dominus Iesus and other magisterial documents

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/sspx-show-vatican-marchetti-error.html