Sunday, November 16, 2014

The Pope of Pentecostal "Mere Christianity"

From some weeks ago, a meeting between Pope Francis and the heirs of "bishop" Tony Palmer, the Pentecostal pastor friend of the Pope who recently died in a motorcycle accident. In the video you see the Holy Father sitting beside the Mr. Palmer's widow and a number of other gentlemen dressed as bishops.

The video is somewhat plodding and a bit painful to watch, but as the accompanying post suggests in Spanish, in terms of the claims asserted it is quite significant: the differences between Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant are minimized -- minor details to be left to the theologians. What counts is their common Christian baptism. Ecumenismus in excelsus. No "self-absorbed promethean neo-pelagians" here, evidently. Source: Otro pellizco (November 14, 2014; the video was published originally on October 22, 1014)


Related: "Pope Francis and the Future of Charismatic Christianity" (Musings, February 21, 2014).

[Hat tip to N.C.]


14 comments:








BenYachov

said...
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Pertinacious Papist

said...

Ha-ha!! I took a tip from Fr. Z and put on my door a clipping that reads: "I am a self-absorbed promethean neo-pelagian and proud of it!"

The language of the Holy Father is something I sometimes find most amusing.

To make a meaningful response to your challenge, one would first have to know what the phrase meant, don't you think? Furthermore, do you think I know what the phrase means? It makes absolutely no sense in terms of the lexical definitions of the words.

Do I think the Holy Father knew what he meant to communicate when he used those words? You bet! They are right out of the his playbook: "The Pope Francis Little Book of Insults."

This still doesn't help make sense of the phrases, however, which are mostly nonsensical and often hilarious. You gotta love it! I do!





BenYachov

said...
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Mighty Joe Young

said...

All one has to do is watch what he does to see that the Bishop of Rome is effectively an indifferentist and entirely at odds with Pope Pius XII and all of the Popes prior to Pius XII.

One would break his mind - it can't be made to bend that much - trying to argue continuity for clearly none exists when it comes to the ecclesiology of the new theologians/modernists





c matt

said...

self-absorbed i suppose is rather self explanatory. Promethean, in reference to the Greek mythological figure who gave man "fire" against the wishes of the gods, I have no clue what that is suppose to mean. Is the Pope Luddite? Neo-Pelagian, I think he simply misunderstands - as Pelagius' heresy seems to more in line with what PF emphasizes (works and "seeking the good" over the sacraments or salvific actions of Christ). It's either projection, or a very confused understanding. But it sure sounds impressive.





Pertinacious Papist

said...

Ben,

I'm not the one whose clueless about what each word in the expression means. I'm not the one taking them literally. "Pelagianism" is a heresy named after a British monk whom St. Augustine opposed, etc., etc. Yes, I know.

It's a case of Yankee Doodle Dandy: the Brits called the colonists "Yankees" which they intended as a pejorative term. The colonists said to themselves: Okay, then, we're "Yankees," and wore the appellation as a badge of honor.

Silly? Of course! When you don't want to cry, you laugh! It's a healthy response, unlike that of the overly solemn cadre that can't smile at a joke.





BenYachov

said...
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Pertinacious Papist

said...
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Ralph Roister-Doister

said...

c matt makes a good point. Pelagianism in any sense understood before Francis started throwing the word around, was a heresy far more congenial to modernists than to trads. His misuse of the word seemed unaccountable back then. But after a couple of years of witnessing his child-like fascination with notions of post-Catholic Catholicism, the air of mystery is departed.

Adfero on Rorate Caeli wrote a very fine article about pelagianism and Francis' goofy misuse of the term back at the time it first became public. I think PP linked to it back then. Perhaps he would consider doing so again, since so many neophytes seem to confuse popespeak with reality these days.





Ralph Roister-Doister

said...

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/08/confused-how-traditional-catholics-can.html





BenYachov

said...
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Tantumblogo

said...

Dang only one comment on the actual video. And I was hoping to find out what people thought.

Now I'll have to watch the darned thing.

It's so much easier when others tell me what to think.





JM

said...

Is it possible the only people upset at the Papal statement "self-absorbed promethean neo-pelagian" might really be one?

Yes, it's possible. It's also possible the people upset at conservative critics of Francis are those who talk about taking words at face value and then insist we read five feet of context into every remark he makes or action he takes. Taken at face value, Francis is at best a confused theologian, and a sloppy ecclesiastic. But that's only if if we take him at face value... which in light of charity is something I guess we probably shouldn't do.

Love and defend the Pope at any cost. My Church, right or wrong...





Pertinacious Papist

said...

BenYachov,

Please contact me at phblosser [at] gmail [dot] com. I need to communicate with you.