This appears in a half-hour-long discussion among a panel of five members, including one woman (a Notre Dame law school grad) and four men (another Notre Dame grad with a pontifical degree in theology and several others) in the new "Download" program feature on "False Ecumenism" (January 25, 2016), which you can view with a $10/month premium account at CMTV. Enjoy.
I have not yet proffered up my $10, and yet to yank Mr. Voris' chain, quite frankly, which is the stranger phenomenon, people reading the Bible and finding Jesus there, or Pope Francis, vicar of Christ, chatting away and obfuscating the message? I'd argue Rome is just as heretical as Luther right now, maybe not on paper in terms of punctuation, but otherwise. And Luther at least had good rhetorical instincts. These aged guys, Nancy boys, trying to ape the whole World's Fair tonality like they are heirs to Uncle Walt's House of Tomorrow. Even as it is 2016/ Sorry, but Luther is hardly more scandalous. Let's clean up our own house. Starter: praying this pontificate ends soon. Right now, Catholic trads all sound too much like a weird clone of Patrick Madrid and Mark Shea. And yes, that is as throw up-gross as it sounds. Meanwhile, Brandon Vought and Robert Barron no doubt are advising prayer vigils to JPII the Great. Can we all turn off our easy bake ovens now and stop pretending we aren't adults? The kids need to be put to bed
ReplyDeleteI cannot see any ecumenical avenue with Protestantism. Its a complete rejection of Christian history, interpretation, and practice.
ReplyDeleteHaving now paid the fee I have to confess it is a well-handled discussion! Interesting perspectives.
ReplyDeleteAnd even many Protestants sort of get it. Aaron Dendinger at Ref 221 writes,
ReplyDelete"In recently re-reading and teaching on Luther's Address to the Christian Nobility, I began to wonder whether we as Protestant heirs of Luther today possess any part of his love and zeal for Christ's bride, or specifically for her catholicity and unity. I wonder, in other words, if we haven't grown too comfortable in our fragmented Protestant existence, and in the opportunity that our stretched-thin and mobile and consumeristic lifestyles present to walk away from problems in the church (at least as such problems present themselves to us in concrete congregations and denominations). To capitalize on Luther's analogy, it seems to me that the church -- no matter what form she takes in our particular lives -- is always on fire to some extent, or at least, there's almost always a fire brewing. How often are we waiting for someone to come and shout directions, or simply walking away entirely, instead of grabbing a bucket and getting to work? Is indifference our principal response to a burning church -- indifference rooted, perhaps, in the fact that in our day we think not in terms of church but of churches, and are fairly confident when fire breaks out that we can find a different congregation or denomination where things are less hot (at least for another five minutes)? As for the fires we've just walked away from when we move on -- well, as they say, someone else's problem.
We need more bucket grabbers in the church these days. And bucket grabbing, I think, looks like greater commitment to the church in its local expression and, simultaneously, commitment to the church on a much larger scale. We need less rhetoric of "service to the church" these days -- rhetoric that often masks rather blatant exploitation of the church by "Christian" organizations and individuals -- and more genuine service to the church; service, that is, driven by love; service that might leave us with singed eyelashes and splinters in our hands, but might equally save a few people from getting burned."
Not as entertaining as Jim Baaker shlepping bomb shelter food.
ReplyDeleteDon't confuse the Petrine Office with Avignon. John 11:51 demonstrates how even the corrupt Caiaphas, no matter how diabolical his motives, could divinely inspired to prophesy: "He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus would die for the entire Jewish nation."
ReplyDeleteAvignon was a simmering cauldron of pontifical sins, but the Petrine Office passed through these pontificates nonetheless.
Having said that, I readily cede the point that the Church is in dire straits, that the hierarchy is full of soft patsies wallowing in sloth and indolence.
The remedy starts with each of us doing our part in penance, prayer, and sacrifice. Until we've started doing that, we've forfeited the right to criticize anyone.
Each of us, I trust, is already doing “our part in penance, prayer, and sacrifice.” That may be what has led us to the current pass, for all you know, Markie. So my take is that the whole idea of “you’re right, but pipe down anyway” is wrongfooted, to put it kindly, as brotherly counsel or anything else.
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