tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post9033886648231139246..comments2024-01-29T08:39:40.754-05:00Comments on Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: Michael Voris interviews John Allen, Edward Pentin, others on various defects in Catholic media coverageUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-29082743989995520982015-02-22T10:24:30.768-05:002015-02-22T10:24:30.768-05:00You live by your best lights. When the Church cann...You live by your best lights. When the Church cannot even clearly call sin by its name, you realize its indefectility as a doctrine might be as opaque a concept as has been "no salvation outside the Church," a doctrine once literally understood by later taught by the Church to be rather meaningless when looked at from earthly perspectives. Possibly likewise "the gays of hell shall not..." After all, where is its understanding even attempted to be explicitly spelled out. Consistency with papal cow towing would demand great leniency on this point! Fair is fair.JMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06684142528414196410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-81029421227970140492015-02-22T09:48:22.870-05:002015-02-22T09:48:22.870-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.JMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06684142528414196410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-32414777934663069422015-02-20T17:40:56.056-05:002015-02-20T17:40:56.056-05:00Dear George. Yes, that is what Bishop Schneider an...Dear George. Yes, that is what Bishop Schneider and Cardinal Burke. Pertinacious Papist etc are doing - faithful opposition from within as is their Canonical right and, maybe, even duty.<br /><br />Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-27552757845896112782015-02-20T13:13:29.968-05:002015-02-20T13:13:29.968-05:00"Maintaining the Bonds of Unity in Worship, D..."Maintaining the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Authority ..."<br /><br />Exactly, Jesus said to do whatever the Pharisees tell you, because they sit in Moses' seat, but not to do what they do because they're hypocrites.<br /><br />So you maintain the bonds of unity, worship, doctrine, and authority with your Pharisee bishops by doing whatever they tell you to do but not following their example, since they don't practice what they preach.<br /><br />But if your Bishop (even the one in Rome) turns out to be Judas and tells you to approve of homosexual unions, communion for divorced and "re-married" adulterers, and deny the teachings of the Church, what would you then do?<br /><br />Who is it then that would be breaking the bonds of unity in doctrine and authority, when Bishop Judas himself is telling you something contrary to the Lord and his Church?<br /><br />So far Francis has avoided explicitly teaching heresy, although he has frequently opined heretical ideas and done things at odd with Church teaching, like supporting doctrinal saboteurs like Kasper and Bruno and Baldisseri.<br /><br />In fact, when Cardinal Pell literally slammed his hand on the table on October 16th (last year at the Synod) and said to Baldisseri: "You must stop manipulating this Synod!" Francis, who was seated next to Baldisseri, was seen constantly passing notes to Baldisseri and reportedly stone-faced as Cardinal Pell launched his dramatic protest.<br /><br />Yes, I agree: the office of any Bishop Judas must be respected, but his errors must be resisted to his face. Only thus can you credibly be said to be maintaining unity of doctrine and authority, since no bishop is authorized to alter church teaching.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-80603756578232635862015-02-20T09:36:47.069-05:002015-02-20T09:36:47.069-05:00Dear JFM. Are Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Raymond...Dear JFM. Are Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke, Pertinent Papist, and my Bishop, Bishop Gerald Barbarito, faithful Catholics?<br /><br />Yes they are and they differ from Fellay and the sspx schism in that they are in union with their local Bishop and Pope.<br /><br />Poor Mons Lefevnre was emotionally labile as is easily seen by his wildly inconsistent actions as documented by several sites.<br /><br />He whipsawed from pledging fidelity of Pope John Paul II to then calling him an antiChrist; he signed his name to a protocol that would give his movement life within the Church then reneged on his name and when he initiated his petit ecclesia, he was not an Abp (he was demoted from ABp when he was returned to France) but despite these well known facts, he continues to be identified as a latter day Athanasius.<br /><br />C'est la vie. <br /><br />Any man has free will to do as he desires but one day each man will stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and what possible answer can there be if He asks us - why did you support a schism against my Church that I promised would never fail?<br /><br />Good luck coming up with a explanation for that...<br /><br />Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-18947394900016937682015-02-20T09:20:22.238-05:002015-02-20T09:20:22.238-05:00Larry. Maintaining the Bonds of Unity in Worship, ...Larry. Maintaining the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Authority is the sine qua non of Catholicism.<br /><br />No matter what a Pope or prelate does one has no choice but to remain in Communion with his local Bishop and the Holy See of Peter which can never teach error.<br /><br />Saint Vincent of Lerins taught us that these types of situations are the way God tests if our love for Him is authentic.<br /><br />And it is not an authentic characteristic of love to flee the fighting anymore than it was heroic for draft dodgers to go to Canada and strut around in Army fatigues.<br /><br />The SSPX is a cohort of draft dodgers who have fled the battlefield and just because they wear Fiddlebacks that makes them no more authentic Catholic than wearing fatigues made draft dodgers soldiers.<br /><br />O, and to belabor the crummy analogy, when Carter dispensed amnesty, the draft dodgers came home whereas when Benedict XVI dispensed amnesty (lifting the excommunications) the SSPX refused to come home.<br /><br />Now, if there were draft dodging men in Toronto continuing to oppose whomever it was who was elected POTUS, we would dismiss them as the world-class cranks they would be but in a much more existential situation - SOULS ARE AT STAKE - we are expected to applaud the protestants in fiddlebacks.<br /><br />Yeah, that does seem harsh, doesn't it? But that is who they are. They have substituted their private judgment rather than submitting to the Church Jesus established.<br /><br />Raider Fan hopes this doesn't come across as churlish :) but as Flannery O'Connor noted - to the nearly blind you paint with bold bright colors and to the nearly deaf you scream (paraphrase).Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-79872277097508135612015-02-19T19:12:35.824-05:002015-02-19T19:12:35.824-05:00R.F.,
It would not surprise me at all if the SSPX...R.F.,<br /><br />It would not surprise me at all if the SSPX bishops were re-excommunicated by Francis, what with confidants and advisers like Capuchin Father Fidenzio Volpi, Cardinal Kasper, Apb. Bruno Forte, and Fr. Thomas Rosica. The question then would be whether you wanted to continue squinting and pretending to see CLOTHES on these self-styled emperors, or quietly continue to practice the faith as you've received it.<br /><br />Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-34929216963955810652015-02-18T13:58:51.450-05:002015-02-18T13:58:51.450-05:00The lifting of the excommunications was directed a...The lifting of the excommunications was directed at individuals and not the sspx per se; thus they still do not exercise any ministry in the Church and, in fact, they are further away for reconciliation today than they were when the excommunications were lifted.<br /><br />http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica.html<br /><br />Who would be surprised if the vagus Bishops were re-excommunicated?Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-1381595319778520912015-02-18T12:48:45.245-05:002015-02-18T12:48:45.245-05:00Take the professed beliefs of Francis and line the...<i>Take the professed beliefs of Francis and line them up side by side with those of Bishop Fellay. Fellay's will perfectly accord with the express beliefs and clear teachings of any pope prior to and including Pius XII. Those of Francis will come off as, at best, something resembling those of a theologically conservative, socially liberal, Protestant Pentecostal.</i><br /><br />This is an apt example why those who succor this schism will not reconcile with the Church.<br /><br />For such men, a schism is not only defensible, it is necessary to save the Catholic Church Jesus established.<br /><br />The fact that their personal opinions about the Catholic Church are seen as more consequential than the promises of Jesus illustrates the extent to which the protestants in Fiddlebacks (sspx) have been successful in their campaign to convince many that the Catholic Church in its Popes teaches error.<br /><br />But, isn't it an infallible teaching of Vatican I that the Holy See of Peter will NEVER teach error?<br /><br />Why yes, it is an infallible teaching but infallible teachings were no match for the willfulness of Mons Lefevbre and they are no match for those who think he is the Saint who saved the Catholic Church rather than a man who created a schism and a petit ecclesia whose decisions have supplanted that of the Catholic Church<br />Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-4011776946001589532015-02-18T12:39:02.142-05:002015-02-18T12:39:02.142-05:00The leaders of the traditionalist Society of St. P...The leaders of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) are in schism, and remain suspended from the sacraments, says the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.<br /><br />http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=20046Catholic World NewsMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-89270216430876996482015-02-18T12:37:27.047-05:002015-02-18T12:37:27.047-05:00A few weeks after Lefevbre's excommunication f...A few weeks after Lefevbre's excommunication for here is Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger publicly identifying the Lefevbrite schism<br /><br /><i>And the fact that when the chips were down Lefebvre denounced an agreement that had already been signed, shows that the Holy See, while it made truly generous concessions, did not grant him that complete license which he desired. Lefebvre has seen that, in the fundamental part of the agreement, he was being held to accept Vatican II and the affirmations of the post-conciliar Magisterium, according to the proper authority of each document....<br /><br />It was conceded, in addition, that the Fraternity of St. Pius X would be able to present to the Holy See — which reserves to itself the sole right of decision — their particular difficulties in regard to interpretations of juridical and liturgical reforms. All of this shows plainly that in this difficult dialogue Rome has united generosity, in all that was negotiable, with firmness in essentials. The explanation which Msgr. Lefebvre has given, for the retraction of his agreement, is revealing. He declared that he has finally understood that the agreement he signed aimed only at integrating his foundation into the ‘Conciliar Church.’.<b> The Catholic Church in union with the Pope is, according to him, the ‘Conciliar Church’ which has broken with its own past. It seems indeed that he is no longer able to see that we are dealing with the Catholic Church in the totality of its Tradition, and that Vatican II belongs to that.</b>...<br /><br />“Without any doubt, the problem that Lefebvre has posed has not been concluded by the rupture of June 30th. It would be too simple to take refuge in a sort of triumphalism, and<b> to think that this difficulty has ceased to exist from the moment in which the movement led by Lefebvre has separated itself by a clean break with the Church.</b>...<br /><br />If once again we succeed in pointing out and living the fullness of the Catholic religion with regard to these points,<b> we may hope that the schism<br />of Lefebvre will not be of long duration.”</b></i><br /><br />http://unavoce.org/resources/cardinal-ratzingers-address-to-bishops-of-chile/Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-40070359180784981302015-02-18T11:40:06.107-05:002015-02-18T11:40:06.107-05:00"Take the professed beliefs of Francis and li..."Take the professed beliefs of Francis and line them up side by side with those of Bishop Fellay. Fellay's will perfectly accord with the express beliefs and clear teachings of any pope prior to and including Pius XII. Those of Francis will come off as, at best, something resembling those of a theologically conservative, socially liberal, Protestant Pentecostal."<br /><br />In a nutshell and *exactly*! <br /><br />(Well, almost. I don't think Francis is theologically conservative if he embraces quasi-universalism or a lot of other Jesuit sophistry. And if he doesn't, then his homiletic corpus resembles that of an schizophrenic preacher.)JFMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05496819581817926605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-65434107027507453732015-02-18T11:31:51.006-05:002015-02-18T11:31:51.006-05:00"Within Tradition, schism has always been tho..."Within Tradition, schism has always been thought of as an unthinkable evil"<br /><br />Up until Vatican II it was unthinkable for the Church to equivocate on doctrine or to couch it in Modernist rhetoric. If a schism is somehow taking place, it IS the official Church departing from its own doctrines, and not a sect or splinter group creating anything new, that is creating schism. If I stand on doctrine and the Church moves off it, who has moved away from the faith? If a body can redefine doctrine at will in the name of "Living Tradition," unity and communion mean nothing more than robotic institutional loyalty.<br /><br />Likewise, Lefebvre did not defend John Paul II because, as admirable and saintly as he may have been, on doctrine he was fuzzy if not wrong. Same for Paul VI on the Mass: plain wrong. No presumption there, just careful reading of sources.. Unless you insist on chucking the law of non-contradiction and honest intellect at the door, too many statements contradict earlier official teaching. So calling the SSPX schismatic is simply throwing your own children under the bus to keep a seat on the new Greyhound Cruiser. OK, that is a little over the top, but it gets my point across. Out of communion is not good, butI'd argue God is using the separated group as a remnant of faithfulness. Where else do you find the Faith taught clearly now, other than a few conservative parishes and SSPX chapels? Faithful communion involves both head, heart, and parish membership list. If the first two are lacking, I am not sure how much good the last item does in the long run. The Church is in a sorry state, but it is unique in that it is doctrinally as well as morally at sea. Equating Modernism and Arianism confuses categories in my book.JFMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05496819581817926605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-45199150492852635012015-02-17T22:10:56.720-05:002015-02-17T22:10:56.720-05:00The SSPX is NOT in schism. Darío Castrillón Cardi...The SSPX is NOT in schism. Darío Castrillón Cardinal Hoyos, Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy and president emeritus of the Pontifical Commission <i>Ecclesia Dei</i>, when asked by Michael Matt on camera whether the SSPX should be called "schismatic," declared in no uncertain terms: No, they are not at all schismatic, but have an irregular canonical status we have been working together to try and resolve.Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-82623773750815596232015-02-17T22:10:38.299-05:002015-02-17T22:10:38.299-05:00It took a blasted lot of time for Voris to meander...It took a blasted lot of time for Voris to meander to his conclusions about such hugely important matters as which is the "safer" Matt brother. Not an opinion I needed to know.<br /><br /><br />The longer Voris persists, the more unsettled his convictions become. The more unsettled his convictions, the more Church Militant TV sounds like EWTN. Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-61260673627177007532015-02-17T17:37:22.249-05:002015-02-17T17:37:22.249-05:00Maybe I am a bit fuzzy on the whole schism thing, ...Maybe I am a bit fuzzy on the whole schism thing, but if ex-communication has been lifted, how can they be in schism?c mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-51333214680397506292015-02-17T17:35:08.092-05:002015-02-17T17:35:08.092-05:00so long as they require of you only what is in kee...<i>so long as they require of you only what is in keeping with Church teaching</i><br /><br />Where the rubber meets the road. MV is right if, and only if, Francis seeks to require of Catholics only what is in keeping with Church teaching. This is where MV's arguments fall apart. As Louie correctly points out, it is not bashing Francis if in his public pronouncements Francis seeks to require of us something that is not in keeping with Church teaching (eg, communion for divorced and remarried). Louie et al's approach is to shout at Francis "Dude, you are driving off a cliff" as he heads for disaster. Voris's illogical approach is to be silent until Francis drives off the cliff - and then what? Tell Francis's roasted corpse "Dude, you drove off a cliff." Helpful, that.c mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-86469567111683583502015-02-17T16:38:20.016-05:002015-02-17T16:38:20.016-05:00You want the TRUTH about schism?! You can't h...You want the TRUTH about schism?! You can't handle the TRUTH!!! Yes, there's a schismatic sect in the body of Christ, but it's not the SSPX, which is sworn to fidelity to Sacred Tradition and all that the popes have ever defined dogmatically. The schismatic sect is the cult of neo-catholicism nurtured with ambiguities and half-truths since Vatican II and brazenly declared by the current renegade claimant to the throne of Peter.<br /><br />Take the professed beliefs of Francis and line them up side by side with those of Bishop Fellay. Fellay's will perfectly accord with the express beliefs and clear teachings of any pope prior to and including Pius XII. Those of Francis will come off as, at best, something resembling those of a theologically conservative, socially liberal, Protestant Pentecostal.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-57582402037984204212015-02-17T09:23:10.564-05:002015-02-17T09:23:10.564-05:00When the monks of Papa Stronsay reconciled with Th...When the monks of Papa Stronsay reconciled with The Church, they made a point of saying they were in union with actual Rome not eternal Rome.<br /><br />Only a ignorant man would fail to see the implied criticism of the sspx schismMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-15138766389182423152015-02-17T08:57:10.327-05:002015-02-17T08:57:10.327-05:00Uncountable are the number of times Mortalium Anim...Uncountable are the number of times <i>Mortalium Animos</i> is cited by those who succor the sspx schism but Raider Fan wonders how many have read it in its entirety?<br /><br />11.<i><b> Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.</b></i> <br /><br />According to the express teachings of one of their favorite Encyclicals the SSPX is out of the Church.<br /><br />Now, they may be the new Old Catholics or, maybe, the new schismatics of the East - the so-called Orthodox - but they no more protect and defend Tradition anymore than do the ones previously citedMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-90568526053582115212015-02-17T08:48:18.837-05:002015-02-17T08:48:18.837-05:00Angelic Doctor on Schism and its effects
http://...Angelic Doctor on Schism and its effects<br /><br /><br />http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3039.htmThe Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-92090471746472627912015-02-17T08:26:31.262-05:002015-02-17T08:26:31.262-05:00Within Tradition, schism has always been thought o...Within Tradition, schism has always been thought of as an unthinkable evil and an act to be avoided at all costs; Saint Augustine, amongst others, taught that there is never reason to create a schism.<br /><br />But with the rise of the SSPX and its popular propaganda machine, schism is no longer viewed as a grave evil, it is considered a blessing and a way that Jesus may save His Church.<br /><br />Yes, Jesus will save His Church by Blessing a schism that severs His Church and exists in opposition to it; well, whatever, as the saints say.<br /><br />The fact is that Mons lefevbre established his own petit ecclesia in opposition to the Church established by Jesus yet we are supposed to give thanks for his perfidy?<br /><br />http://southernvermontcrank.blogspot.com/2014/01/mons-lefebvres-petit-ecclesia-exposed_24.html<br /><br />O, and what about Mons Lefevbre dying EENS while knowing that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus as the Ark of Salvation?<br /><br />Even Vatican Two says such a man can not be saved.<br /><br />Raider Fan? He never judges the soul of another - especially his own -but he thinks that the poor Mons was mentally incapacitated and, thus, likely not culpable for his acts but one simply can not defend any schism if one desires to claim he defends Tradition.<br /><br />Which is worse, the schism or the anthropological orientation of the neo-mods?<br /><br />Schism. And it ain't even closeMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-61590415539567881442015-02-17T07:34:54.808-05:002015-02-17T07:34:54.808-05:00Admittedly, both were Catholics but the idea that ...Admittedly, both were Catholics but the idea that Mons Lefevbre was a latter day saint akin to the great Saint Athanasius is aught but deceptive propaganda from the schism; ok, it is worse than that - it is a bald faced lie. (Well, what does one expect from a schism?)<br /><br />Mons Lefevbre was excommunicated by a Pope who was not a captive being tortured whereas the Saint Athanasius situation was just that.<br /><br />Mons Lefevbre never defended the orthodoxy of Pope John Paul Ii whereas Saint Athanasius publicly defended the orthodoxy of Pope Liberius.<br /><br />This fetid lying propaganda is so successful because not enough traditionalists take the time to search out the truth of the matter.<br /><br />It is quite easy to do so. Click on the link below and read the very words of the great Saint his own self and you will see that there is no similarity between the great saint and Mons Lefevbre.<br /> <br />http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/28155.htmMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-12362012066059024322015-02-16T18:28:29.457-05:002015-02-16T18:28:29.457-05:00THE POPE, SPEAKING EX CATHEDRA, IS INFALLIBLE. Ot...THE POPE, SPEAKING EX CATHEDRA, IS INFALLIBLE. Otherwise, I have yet to see a definitive argument that he can't err, screw up, or be on the receiving end of a close-to knock out punch from the other side. That does not mean Hell has won, but it may mean Hell has gotten the upper hand in more than one round. For all the fear of the SSPX and LeFebvre, I have yet to see what teaching they promote that is so alarming, other than the single one that the Papacy is a doctrinal mess, a proposition that pretty much every conservative already senses is correct, as much as they insist otherwise to keep themselves in the faithful mainstream Catholic mindset. I am not advocating schism, but I am saying that "mainstream Catholic" today means Confused-to-Modernist Catholic. Look at the votes at the Synod, read the literature of official AmChurch... Then try reading just about any of the literature from Angelus Press ...Whichironically is for the most part nothing more than the old literature of the American Church from 70 years ago! (No wonder Vaican II devotees feel justified in talking about 'new' and 'old' Churches!) Hard to call a bunch of people schismatic or bad news when they are defending all the essential Catholic doctrines using classic manuals, while the Pope and most pf Rome are talking what we all know is a lot of smack. It makes me want to go back and see exactly what took place with Fr. Feeney, to tell you the truth. Maybe it is my mindset as a convert who witnessed the Episcopal Church collapse under a bunch of hierarchal acquiescence, but come on. Marcel Lefebvre is about as dangerous as Deitrich von Hilderbrand, whereas most of Rome is about as dangerous as de Chardin or Rahner. I remain in the Church, but I am not about to get all chivalrous defending dubious men, or condemn others who are fighting the good fight. In my book the SSPX seems very much like a faithful remnant, whereas the rest of us seem more like subversives, spies, and holdouts on a ship whose bridge has pretty much been seemingly taken without acknowledgment. Hell can't win, I agree, but its vandals can do enough damage to make victory something achieved amidst the ruins. We will see how it actually all plays out, but I think Voris can't see through his lifelong Catholic blinders. Of course, he will say they same about my convey blinders, I know!JMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06684142528414196410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-48964791060980679522015-02-16T17:42:52.529-05:002015-02-16T17:42:52.529-05:00I'm afraid I must cast my lot with those who w...I'm afraid I must cast my lot with those who would insist that the verdict is still out on the SSPX. The arguments are nothing like the simplistic caricature offered by CMTV here. I have heard an arguable case made comparing Lefebvre to the repeatedly deposed and exiled St. Athanasius. Time will tell.<br /><br />We have the promises of Christ that he will always be with his Church. There is NO promise to the effect that the Church will ultimately be more than a small remnant, even a handful, or that a pontiff reigning at any given time will remain faithful. We have had antipopes in the past. We will have them in the future. We may have one now. Charlesnoreply@blogger.com