tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post5819353821912407510..comments2024-01-29T08:39:40.754-05:00Comments on Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: Enter the American BergoglioUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-23718185155113554332014-11-15T16:39:00.302-05:002014-11-15T16:39:00.302-05:00Hey, we've gotta have standards! If Shea start...Hey, we've gotta have standards! If Shea starts getting invoked too often in these com boxes, it may be time for you to shut 'em down!JMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06684142528414196410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-79521977125710871102014-11-15T16:36:51.355-05:002014-11-15T16:36:51.355-05:00Pell should not be compared to Chervin. At all. Si...Pell should not be compared to Chervin. At all. Simply read their respective corpuses. As for trying to impugn by tossing out the name of the Kolbe Center, which group sounds more 'Catholic,' their people or the Vatcianistas invoking De Chardin and Rahner and yes, Kasper? There's no contest. And yet I guess the frightening reactionaries at the Kolbe Center are supposed to represent the genuinely dangerous group, same for the SSPX, whereas the Vatican intelligentsia is no more questionable than,say, the guiding lights at NPR. So goes the narrative that Reasonable Catholic Americans now reassure themselves by. They will quote Ratzinger ad nauseum, but wouldn't recognize the names, much less the thought processes, of voices like those belonging to Cardinal Siri or James Fenton. With Living Tradition, yesterday's heroes are todays strange and sad characters.<br /><br />Anyone who dubs Pell or Schonborn a conservative is somewhat out of touch with the larger history and currents of Catholic theology, period. Both leaders seem like gentlemen, and "loyal sons of the Church" (the new catch phrase that has already morphed into a meaningless rivaling that of "family values"), but they are no more 'conservative' than were JPII or Ratzinger. Actually, that's unfair, since Schoborn has recently jumped the shark and is out of place with the other three names, who can at least be called moderates. Schonborn seems more like an embryonic Kasperite: anyone insisting on the rights of a gay couple to hold leadership positions in a parish is liberal in essence. Sometimes those always-decried acid tests are in fact pretty useful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-52031309241304113392014-11-14T11:04:02.792-05:002014-11-14T11:04:02.792-05:00Sherri Weddell blew in one of those windows Pope R...Sherri Weddell blew in one of those windows Pope Roncalli was itching to open. She is another ex-protestant seeking to apply her ex-protestant pentecostalist-charismatic-etc "gifts" to the Church of Christ nee Roman Catholic Church. She blogs, she writes books, and has generally tried, with some success, to gain traction in the neo-Cath world of Grub Street commentators. She seems to be particularly tight with Mark Shea. Both are living proof that any non-trad can say whatever (s)he wants and still can be "Catholic and enjoying it -- and even getting paid for it" as long as (s)he prefaces every statement (s)he make with "the pope is right about EVERYTHING."<br /><br />As for Pell, he is nothing any conservative, much less trad, is likely to get excited about. Pell is an issue-by-issue guy, and it is hard to tell whether his pickiness comes from a special perspicacity, or from a careerist's political canniness. I like some of what he has said over the years, but he is not on my list of gents to whom I would trust my back.<br /><br />This may be unfair to Pell, but I tend to think of him as a Levada kind of guy.<br /><br />As to what Francis sees in him, I would speculate that part of it is that Pell is neither North American nor European. Australia may not be a third world continent over all, but it may be that Pell has some influence with third world bishops (a very hot commodity in the political petri dish of RC leadership), and is thus perceived as worthy of cultivation by Field Hospital Chief Administrator Bergoglio. Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-10881077919472295672014-11-14T09:50:40.829-05:002014-11-14T09:50:40.829-05:00A.B. Don't waste your time to mentally corral ...A.B. Don't waste your time to mentally corral the progressive puppies at Patheos - blind Polyannas all.<br /><br />Run with the big dogs who know what they are talking about and who are now taking off the gloves about this execrable synod:<br /><br />http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com<br /><br />The Ployannas are not merely wrong about papal politics, they are blind to the truth of CatholicsmMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-12782600000141570312014-11-13T18:05:04.419-05:002014-11-13T18:05:04.419-05:00@Anon
I think I will indulge myself & have a ...@Anon<br /><br />I think I will indulge myself & have a little bit of fun with you.<br /><br />It's all in fun.<br /><br />>I think you're being played like an off-key violin by the establishment Neo-Cath media.<br /><br />Do I smell a Radtrad answer?<br /><br />Well this should be interesting.<br /><br />>Waddell makes out Pell to be neither a liberal nor a moderate? True, he came out on the side of the Church in the Synod debacle.<br /><br />Didn't he also contributed to the book edited by Cardinal Burke that did the neat little take down on Kasper?<br /><br />But I guess if he doesn't illicitly consecrate four Priests, Bishops behind the Pope's back he is too far to the left for your tastes eh?;-) <br /><br />>But he's hardly a traditional Catholic or even conservative. Did you see his debate with Richard Dawkins (still online, I think). <br /><br />I saw Ronda Chervin do badly in an online debate with a young Atheist who was using Stephen Law's goofball "Evil God" challenge that Traditional Catholic Philosopher Edward Feser took down with his eyes closed.<br /><br />Does this mean Dr. Chervin is a liberal in your eyes now? Or worst a NeoCath?<br /><br />>He made a few passable remarks but nearly threw out the baby with the bathwater and the kitchen sink as well as far as the reliability of Holy Scripture and tenability of Darwinian assumptions.<br /><br />Dawkins is best suited to debating Young Earth Creationist types & or Protestant ANSWERS IN GENESIS types.<br />If you where disappointed Pell wasn't sharing the talking points of the KOLBE CENTER well I can't help ya buddy.<br /><br />Pell must have also done a god awful job defending a geocentric universe too eh?<br /><br />>He reminds me of other celebrated "conservatives" under the reign of John Paul II, like Cardinal Schoenborn of Vienna, who was one of the chief architects of the celebrated Catechism of the Catholic Church.<br /><br />Ah so I am dealing with one of the Old guard refuse and resisters?<br /><br />Classic! Good times!<br /><br />>But look where he is now! Conservative? Pshaw!! More like a weather vane. And though I appreciate Pell's comments at the Synod, I don't trust him much more than Schoenborn or even Dolan, about whom so many expected great things.<br /><br />In other words you are the typical reactionary trad?<br /><br />Well there ya have it!<br /><br />Peace be with you.:-) :DSon of Ya'Kovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645132954231868592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-43182071464517614962014-11-13T16:54:46.794-05:002014-11-13T16:54:46.794-05:00No, B.Y., I think you're being played like an ...No, B.Y., I think you're being played like an off-key violin by the establishment Neo-Cath media.<br /><br />Waddell makes out Pell to be neither a liberal nor a moderate? True, he came out on the side of the Church in the Synod debacle. But he's hardly a traditional Catholic or even conservative. Did you see his debate with Richard Dawkins (still online, I think). He made a few passable remarks but nearly threw out the baby with the bathwater and the kitchen sink as well as far as the reliability of Holy Scripture and tenability of Darwinian assumptions.<br /><br />He reminds me of other celebrated "conservatives" under the reign of John Paul II, like Cardinal Schoenborn of Vienna, who was one of the chief architects of the celebrated Catechism of the Catholic Church. But look where he is now! Conservative? Pshaw!! More like a weather vane. And though I appreciate Pell's comments at the Synod, I don't trust him much more than Schoenborn or even Dolan, about whom so many expected great things.Anonymous Boschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-39489921121193836662014-11-13T10:30:04.364-05:002014-11-13T10:30:04.364-05:00Is this an accurate rending of the English languag...Is this an accurate rending of the English language or are we supposed to believe that Bergolio was elected as Pope owing to his well-known naturalistic agenda as it was actualised in Argentina?<br /><br />Either way, we can certainly dismiss N.O. Review as mercy-haters or rad trads or reactionaries or somethingMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-50625801590493792782014-11-12T21:31:15.938-05:002014-11-12T21:31:15.938-05:00If I may steal liberally from Mark Shea.
Sherry ...If I may steal liberally from Mark Shea.<br /><br /> Sherry Weddell notes:<br /><br /><br />What is interesting is that Cardinal George Pell – who was also one of the authors of the pre-Synod book – along with Burke – , is no one’s idea of a liberal or even a moderate, and made his feelings known loudly and clearly at the Synod – has been chosen by Pope Francis as one of his closest collaborators, heading up the new Vatican Secretary of the Economy. But nobody is talking about Pell – because he doesn’t fit the narrative of a covertly dissenting Pope removing conservatives from power. Pope Francis does seem to be picking leadership on other grounds than the oh too familiar US cultural war divisions. Francis also picked Bishop Anthony Fisher – often referred to as “Boy George” in Australia, Pell’s long time protege, who is both brilliant and completely orthodox – if slightly more smooth – to become the new Archbishop of Sydney. And that doesn’t fit the narrative either. I don’t know how each of these decisions were made – and neither do any of you – but they certainly aren’t fitting into a tidy conspiracy narrative.<br /><br />Mike Harrison notes:<br />"Burke served 6+ years. His predecessor, Cdl. Vallini (4 years), was moved to “Great Chancellor of the Pontifical Lateran University”. Vallini’s predecessor, Cdl. Pompedda (4.5 years), turned 75 and had his resignation accepted by St. JP II. No shift to another curial position. Pompedda’s predecessor, Cdl. Grocholewski (1 year), was “shifted” to the all-important post of “Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for Catholic Education”. He’s been there since 1999. Grocholewski’s predecessor, Cdl. Agustoni (just under 4 years), became Prefect Emeritus of the Signatura. So Burke has served longer than any of his immediate four predecessors, only one of whom was “shifted to another curial position,” and that one not of earth-shaking significance. Shall I go on?"<br /><br />My own comments: I somehow get the feeling I have been played by the so called "conservative" and "traditional" Catholic media.<br /><br />I don't if I have been played by liberal Catholic media (since I mostly ignore them). But I have a feeling I have been played.Son of Ya'Kovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645132954231868592noreply@blogger.com