tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post4859001644139032103..comments2024-03-28T16:16:51.062-04:00Comments on Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: "My Initial Doubts about the Latin Mass"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-35344907368526813582013-02-01T13:59:44.260-05:002013-02-01T13:59:44.260-05:00Gregorian chant used to be common in my diocese. ...Gregorian chant used to be common in my diocese. However, it was not heard at low Masses, where silence was enough. Gregorian chant is always appropriate for the high Mass, but I "prefer" the silence of the low Mass. Silence is the absence of ego. The low Mass is liturgy without "performance," and that is what is needed today -- not Palestrinian or Bachian "Hail to the Chief" Mass music (the appropriate venue for which, IMO, is the concert hall), and certainly not kitschy and insipid "praise" music imported from protestant klatches. Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-81169971288311993722013-01-28T19:41:06.954-05:002013-01-28T19:41:06.954-05:00TLM is most definitely an "acquired taste&quo...TLM is most definitely an "acquired taste" if one is used to the Norvus Ordu and American culture. I felt like I had fallen thru the strangest of Time Warps my first few visits. It was surreal, to say the least! If all you have been fed is Baskin Robbins Gumbee Bears Surprise, the classic flavors are going to be a dramatic shift, and one a sugar saturated palette may not take to immediately.JFMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05496819581817926605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-38342505932033670072013-01-28T12:03:07.931-05:002013-01-28T12:03:07.931-05:00I was raised pre-Vatican II. A "traditionalis...I was raised pre-Vatican II. A "traditionalist" friend of mine who is 50 years old was surprised to learn that I was not raised on Gregorian Chant. I have never acquired a taste for that music. I didn't know that the music I really like is called Palestrina. That music didn't abound in the pre-Vatican Church at least in my diocese but I do remember hearing it. My Bishop was the wonderful James Francis Cardinal McIntyre. <br /><br />DonnaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-20597662770520196732013-01-28T10:50:32.743-05:002013-01-28T10:50:32.743-05:00Liturgically, I don't think is the instrumenta...Liturgically, I don't think is the instrumentation so much as the "feel" of the music. I have attended vespers with classical guitar -style hymns that were heavenly. I like to fantasize getting a Catholic otherwise sympathetic rocker or blues guy to do a Mass setting. I bet they could and make it work.<br /><br />LearningAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-8474860198350429482013-01-28T09:35:00.427-05:002013-01-28T09:35:00.427-05:00Small 't' tradition is a neologism these d...Small 't' tradition is a neologism these days. You have 40 year "traditions" that spring from the modernist insurrections of the sixties and seventies -- and consist of little more than aping secular affectations -- Secularism Lite, with "sainthood" as a complimentary nosegay. <br /><br />As with so many things, it might make more sense to pose pre-V2 traditions against post-V2 "traditions." Then one might be able to better distinguish what is being talked about -- well, assuming that one has a clue as to what "pre-V2 tradition" entails. So complete has been the burying of pre-V2 tradition, I doubt there are more than a handful of Catholics under the age of 60 who do. When it comes to burying tradition, the nouvelles are right up there with the communists. <br /><br />When Kreeft made the obligatory nod to small 't' tradition, I would have liked to have asked him: what does he make of behavior that is called "traditional," but consists in eviscerating traditions and replacing them with impromptus.Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-37137282139062985402013-01-27T20:52:33.389-05:002013-01-27T20:52:33.389-05:00Peter Kreeft said something interesting during a p...Peter Kreeft said something interesting during a presentation at Sacred Heart Major Seminary yesterday. He said, when speaking about the Good and True and Beautiful, that the first two can be resisted; but the third can't. I'm not sure that's true, but it's a provocative remark because of what follows (whether true or not) for the importance of beauty in the liturgy.<br /><br />At the end of his talk, during the Q&A, he was asked what role he thought Tradition and the Latin Mass might play in the New Evangelization. He said that taste in music and liturgy is a very personal thing and that 'traditions' are not on the same level as 'Tradition' with a capital 'T'; which had me worried about what he's say.<br /><br />Then he said that he personally couldn't help absolutely loving Gregorian Chant, Palestrina, and the Latin Mass; and he remarked that the "praise music" of the sort that was played and sung before his presentation was music he did not like, and that it sounded 'Baptist' to him.Pertinacious Papisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03213911570586726075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-43866881530893560872013-01-26T17:54:39.149-05:002013-01-26T17:54:39.149-05:00It never occurred to me to approach the old Mass l...It never occurred to me to approach the old Mass like beer.<br /><br />Do I like the Book of Deuteronomy? Do admire the style of Mark? Are all those strange visions in the Apocrypha to my taste or NOT?<br /><br />The old Mass is a central part of my patrimony, "a bit above my likes and dislikes", as Sam Gamgee would say.<br /><br />Sometimes I love it. Sometimes it bores me. So what?Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05362705229107017257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-70327711240827171862013-01-25T15:22:19.528-05:002013-01-25T15:22:19.528-05:00Unimaginative blue noses (one of my pet names for ...Unimaginative blue noses (one of my pet names for neo-Caths) have called blues the devil’s music. I prefer to think of it as the music of the post-Adamic man. As such, I can hardly disown it. Metal thrash music, most rap – now THAT is the devil’s music, expressing true joy in damnation. It is produced purely to make money, the same reason that illicit drugs are produced. The Devil is a growth market these days.Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-52458053332868416862013-01-25T15:20:08.457-05:002013-01-25T15:20:08.457-05:00Not sure how a blog on the traditional Latin Mass ...Not sure how a blog on the traditional Latin Mass as an "acquired taste" (a bizarre notion in itself) got to be a running commentary on heavy metal music, but ok.<br /><br />My biggest regrets musically are:<br /><br />• that I did not involve myself with Bach, Haydn, and baroque/classical music sooner. Nothing surpasses it.<br /> <br />• that I did not climb out of the trough of flaccid, overblown beached whales of romantic-modern symphonic works sooner. And that includes Beethoven.<br /><br />• that the great country blues performer Robert “Barbecue Bob” Hicks died of “consumption” in 1931 at age 30, having recorded only a few dozen sides, some of them brilliant. His “Motherless Child Blues” reveals by comparison the absolute lack of inspiration of the “tribute” version recorded by overrated, under-talented multi-millionaire guitar noodler Eric Clapton. Country blues is a genuine window into a bygone world, not a peep into a spoiled rock star’s barren imagination.<br /> <br />• that Peter Green, the great blues guitarist and singer of the original Fleetwood Mac, a favorite of BB King’s, literally lost his mind after ingesting acid while partying with the Grateful Dead during a tour in the late sixties, and spent the next twenty years gathering up the pieces and fitting them back together, alas imperfectly. <br /> <br />• that Robert Palmer, a wonderful rhythm & blues singer and all-round pop music genius from Malta, of all places, died of a heart attack (heart disease ran in his family) at age 54, much too soon. He could master any pop style. When he did a song made famous by someone else, he frequently, almost routinely, equalled or surpassed the original. The “Addicted to Love” music video, which is what he is unfortunately best known for, is a remarkable tongue-in-cheek achievement, as is the song itself, if you bother listening to it. <br />Ralph Roister-Doisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-90800062509007221252013-01-23T22:31:48.096-05:002013-01-23T22:31:48.096-05:00Hmmm. Sniffing an ash tray. Interesting. But my th...Hmmm. Sniffing an ash tray. Interesting. But my thoughts are more in line with Sheldon. You say that this is something you have to conquer. I love reading your posts. You are on the right path.<br /><br />DonnaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-15335640575690031522013-01-23T21:00:40.644-05:002013-01-23T21:00:40.644-05:00I meant powerful just as in thunderous music. My ...I meant powerful just as in thunderous music. My dad used to listen to big classical pieces, like the1812 Overture(sp?). It is the sound of thunder, freight trains, and jets. Metal bands have that feel plus they feign willingness to be real by looking into the hard things of life - not la dee da like pop music (or the hymns found at the typical guitar mass). So it is stirring but yes in some ways it is like sniffing an ashtray. <br /><br />The old mass and music touch on the same "heavy" themes but you go through them and then soar above them. -LearningAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-43818811168400258422013-01-22T20:55:04.174-05:002013-01-22T20:55:04.174-05:00My thoughts on the heavy metal question. I think ...My thoughts on the heavy metal question. I think that heavy metal may be powerful in the way that pornography, or crack cocaine, or, for that matter, cane sugar is powerful in pop tarts and miscellaneous junk food. All of these can be addictive, and that is a form of power. But that doesn't make it a good power.<br /><br />Power that is good doesn't impose itself on us, or force or compel or bind us. It doesn't destroy our free will by addicting us. Rather, it invites us, provokes us, entices us, wins us over by getting us to make a choice.<br /><br />This is the way that healthful food is powerful, or good literature, or good liturgy, or good music. At first it's not particularly appealing, because it's not laced with sugar, chemicals, or designs that appeal to our base, prurient desires. But when it wins us over, slowly and progressively, we realize we've come into something good and beautiful and true. <br /><br />It takes time. One doesn't acquire a taste for high cuisine as easily as one gets addicted to Doritos or Pop Tarts. Heavy metal music slams into your soul through your body like a lightening bolt, but completely by-passes the intellect. Good music is not merely sensuous, in the sense of appealing to our senses (as does heavy metal, for those who like it), but also to our intellects, which can judge it for proportionality, measure, harmony, completeness, just as its effect on the soul is to elevate it beyond the confines of the sensuous world of flesh.Sheldonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-16740172659946230732013-01-22T20:41:05.381-05:002013-01-22T20:41:05.381-05:00Dear Anonymous. Would you explain what you mean b...Dear Anonymous. Would you explain what you mean by heavy metal being powerful? What power does it have. I ask this with complete sincerity.<br /><br />DonnaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6312447.post-8442208631022288542013-01-22T14:07:06.444-05:002013-01-22T14:07:06.444-05:00I am Catholic convert. I have yet to give up the ...I am Catholic convert. I have yet to give up the heavy metal habit in music - because the music is so powerful, (and due to many other priorities I have other bad habits to conquer first). <br /><br />What can compete with this power? Only something that can bring us soaring up with proportionate and greater power -mysterious silence,language and "poem-prayers" that are only half-understood.<br /><br />Learning<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com